Numbered list ignores weighting

[mxdvl]

“Main media weighting for Numbered list is ignored and pic is always displayed as if it's showcased.
It was designed like this from the start.”
@paperboyo

[bryophyta]

Update: another email came through related to this issue yesterday. It sounds like there's a relatively easy fix in the editorial tools, so perhaps if we aren't able to fix this in the near future we could try to publicise the tools-side fix?

[paperboyo]

we could try to publicise the tools-side fix

Not really a fix as much as users having to remember to change tools switches that are ignored by DCR. They will never remember to do it, even more so because, apart from an image going blurry, the preview looks exactly the same.

What happens is, Design decided that Numbered list template is rendered with always effectively a Showcase Main media weighting no matter what is the state of weighting switch in Composer. So a platform is making a decision of ignoring a switch. Always dodgy idea (think what happens in ten years with those*), but if upheld – the platform in question should make sure it’s requesting a correctly dimensioned image (effectively a Showcase-sized one).

*platforms ignoring switches inevitably leads to inconsistencies in legacy content which will become visible once the design changes. Some of the Numbered list articles will have this “fixed” (Showcase), some not (“Inline”). One day, when platform(s) will go back to honouring content switches, they will look… random.

/end rant, super-minor, but wanted to make the point

[HarryFischer]

Is a solution to this to stop forcing showcase main media? Allow inline and showcase?

[oliverlloyd]

Is a solution to this to stop forcing showcase main media? Allow inline and showcase?

For me, this makes sense. In composer, numberedList is a display hint which mainly affects how ul/li tags are rendered. But it also has the effect of forcing the main media to showcase, but this feels wrong. Ideally, we'd respect the weighting choice made in Composer and allow the main media to be inline as well as showcase.

If we did this, then there's a case to be made that Display.NumberedList should be migrated to Design.Numbered list. This would be a lot more semantic - it never felt right being able to combine the NumberedList display type with other designs. Whereas having a showcase numbered list or an immersive numbered list both feel like good ways to extend the model.

[paperboyo]

For me, this makes sense

There was this thinking of moving Main media weighting to live where Display hints live. This would prevent it being possible. Just saying. cc @HarryFischer

[oliverlloyd]

moving Main media weighting to live where Display hints live

I think rationalising some of these quirks in Composer would be an excellent idea. Any changes here would need to align with format though; the platforms all now use this model to represent content.

For example, removing weighting on main media as the way that we decide that content should get Display.Showcase is a very good idea, this aligns with format and would be a win all around.

But some displayHint values do not align well with format, such as Photo essays, which in the platforms are treated as Design.PhotoEssay, and could even be rethought (just give all articles the same features that photo essays have?)

And some display hints are under review. Display.NumberedList is arguably invalid because it doesn't sit very well with other tones outside of feature. If we're saying that we no longer need numbered lists to always have showcase then these articles become more like photo essays, in that the things that are special about them - the reformatted headings - could perhaps be applied universally?

[paperboyo]

I agree it could (and should) be given some thought (rethought). I agree that developing format helped unearth some stupidity. But I don’t actually agree, now that you have developed format, Tools should blindly follow. For example, inventing PrintShop was just a (cheeky) way of you not being able to (deal with a) design for first image in the body set to Immersive. Tools cannot care about that, nor should, I don’t think. First image just can be Immersive, tough. 😜

format mixes some other concepts, too, IIRC.

just give all articles the same features that photo essays have?

💯

[oliverlloyd]

For sure there are some aspects of format that are not ideal, PrintShop is one, NumberedList is another. But equally, the tools also have issues and inconsistencies, so we're both as bad as each other.

I don't think either side should be following or directing the other. Instead, we should be working together to align and solve these problems to make things better. I realise this sounds like a speech from an 1990s inspirational movie but it really does feel like there's an opportunity here.

[paperboyo]

💯
BTW, I loved that movie!